Voice of the Hawkeyes Board

Sanctioned how? I'm 100% in favor of charging & convicting anyone that covered up these CRIMINAL acts in a CRIMINAL court system

But I'm not in favor of the NCAA making up some loose interpretation of 1 of its 1000000 by-laws to some how punish a team that never broke a NCAA rule but yet punish them anyways because adminstrators broke a criminal law.

It's a shame that this happen. But I'm not after the football team. I want justice to Sandusky, to big red for being a b*t** all these years and not knocking out Jerry in the first place, to the DA that dropped the ball, to school president & VP, to the AD, to anyone that knew & didn't react, to the idiot BOT's members that said they knew for years but still didn't make a fuss when he was allowed on campus til 2011.

i posted the npr story for the simple reason that it reflects a national division of opinion similar to the one that exists between discussants here. each side of the debate has credible proponents. i am not aware that anybody who favors ncaa sanctions proposes them as a substitute for the inevitable criminal and civil sanctions that will be forthcoming.

You can't hold a whole football team
responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole college athletic system? And if the whole college athletic system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can post whatever you want, but I'm not going to sit here and read your posts on badmouthing the United States of America.

your observations are kind of funny--but have no value in the discussion. the relationships among jvb, a bear, and the dnr are in no meaningful way comparable to the relationships among boy victims, joe paterno, and the ncaa. the problems at psu centered on and were caused by the football program--and the administration's extreme desire to protect it.

i have no particular desire to protect or promote the ncaa. most times i think they are silly and hypocritical--as do many, if not most, fans. however, when problems arise because the image of the football program becomes more important than decency or adherence to the law, the ncaa has a role.

also, i do not believe that psu's problems arose simply from the mistakes of four individuals. the environment around the football program had become corrupt and ungoverned. that environment deserves sanctions--sanctions that can only be levied by the ncaa. as others have argued, the fact that innocent players will be damaged is sad--but no sadder than the results of any other broad sanction. extend transfer leniency to them.

i do think the sanctions should be limited to football. institution-wide sanctions would disrupt the school's academic mission.

Actually my observations are pretty legit.

The purpose and reason of the NCAA was formed was for one thing and one thing only, competitve on feild advantage. So for you and anyone else to assume that the NCAA was the right to punish PSU for child molestation, than you might as well assume the NCAA has the right to punish for tax evasion to a mobster.

"when the image of the football program becomes more important than decency or adherence to the LAW" than its a criminal matter that should be investigated with criminal charges.

I completely understand and respect the argument that you and others are making, and am enjoying this discussion. I still feel that with the intentional coverup by the head coach, the AD and other higher ups on campus, this is much different than any other case people have mentioned. Because of that, I don't think it holds water to compare this to anything we've seen in the past at Iowa or elsewhere.

Did Penn State gain a competitive advantage throught the actions of Jerry Sandusky?

I don't know but I hope the I.R.S. and the E.P.A. come down hard on them

you keep going for the boffo knock-out punch by mischaracterizing my position and then creaming your version of what i'm asserting. of course, if i really was asserting that the ncaa should sanction psu for child molestation you'd have a point. however, we both know that's not my position--even though you seem to enjoy pretending it is.

psu allowed its football program to dominate its institutional values. some of the manifestations of this dominance might well result in criminal actions against individuals who tacitly enabled, ignored, or covered up the crime of molestation. at the same time, the university created an atmosphere in which this sort of inaction might seem plausible or even desirable. this foul atmosphere was not created by one criminal or one criminal and four administrative wrong doers. it was a shared creation of at least a generation of fans, boosters, teachers, students, and administrators. sanctioning this corrupt environment is beyond the reach of the law, but potentially within the reach of the body that governs college athletics, the ncaa. the ncaa need not pretend to prosecute criminal activities, but it has the right--and maybe the obligation--to sanction the adoption of corrupt values in managing its athletic affairs.

Good points all around!

you really have no shame, do you. always a cheap put down based on a convenient--and pretty clearly purposeful-- misinterpretation of what somebody else has said. obviously, i did not not suggest that sandusky's sexual offenses were caused by the environment at psu--but you know that. it just isn't very funny or very snappy to consider the ways in which the environment at psu might have allowed the offenses to go on unchecked.

silverhawk said...

"....the problems at psu centered on and were caused by the football program--and the administration's extreme desire to protect it. " No it was not. The problem was an individual who molested children. If he did it at a swimming pool, we should not blame the water. Likewise we should not blame the shower room or the football complex that houses the shower room.

The problem was exacerbated by the failure of PSU administrators to do their jobs, for whatever reasons they may have had. Their motivations may have been cowardice, distaste for the issues that they faced, fear of Paterno/Sandusky, fear of Public backlash against the bearer of bad news? None of us can truly know for certain.

My point is, PUNISH THE WRONG DOERS. Don't try to justify a scourge against all things Penn State. There was a time, long ago, when laws punished the family of a criminal because the ether of crime was carried in the blood of the family. In todays more enlightened views, there is no "ether of crime". I am not a big Bible quoter, but the following seems pertinent, "“The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.” Ezekiel 18:20 There is nothing wicked about Penn State Football. There was unquestionably much wicked about the leaders of Penn State University and the two two leaders of the football program. Punish the leaders, not the lead, since the lead were not lead into the crimes that are the crux of the problem.

Another quote seems apropos, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." The NCAA is not Caesar, and has no business stepping into this matter.