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From SB Nation (dated 1/20/13): "There's a ton of chatter on the Internet these days about expansion, and in the last couple days, a lot of noise has picked up about the Big Ten and Virginia. After going to several different places on the Interwebs, it looks like Virginia is set to become team 15 in the Big Ten, maybe as early as Monday morning, with either North Carolina or Georgia Tech team 16. Or it could be North Carolina and Duke. Or North Carolina and Virginia. Or it could be a 4 team combination of UNC, UVA, Duke, Georgia Tech, and Florida State. Or it could be all five of those teams, add Notre Dame, and now you've got 20 teams. Or, it could be something else entirely. Some people are saying that the B1G and Big 12 have each offered two ACC teams each, but has not said what teams they were."
The article links to one ESPN's Adam Rittenberg wrote last Friday. http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/68129/how-to-get-smart-about-b1g-expansion He does a great job about laying out the criteria for adding teams.
Rumors abound on the Internet regarding the Big Ten, expansion, and the impending death of the ACC. If said rumors are to be believed.
Virginia adds nothing athletically, imo. Not sure what their academics are like, but athletically, this does nothing for me. The Virginia market isn't that important, imo.
UVA is great academically - at the same level as Michigan - but are ho-hum in all of their revenue sports. Also, they are 2nd fiddle in Virginia to VT. I hate all of this expansion, It is going to ruin the culture and the cohesiveness of the Big Ten. With UVA, I guess we could become a power in lacrosse.
Rittenberg's article is spot on. Expansion has nothing to do with athletics or academics. It's all about branding.
UVa is a fabulous public institution and is a major feeder for the D.C. Metro area. Maryland, alone, does not sew up the Balt/Wash corridor but adding UVa does. Plus it's a beautiful campus and would be a tremendous visit for anyone in the Fall.
If 16 is the ultimate goal, I refuse to believe we will get to that number without Notre Dame, not because we can't, but because the conference doesn't or at least shouldn't want to. I detest Notre Shame as much as the next guy, but their brand name and prestige is undeniable. There's only a few "true" power schools and regardless of the last 20 some years, they are one of the few and geographically, I don't see them fitting in anywhere else.
Sine Missione -- Never be a spectator for unfairness or stupidity, argue for arguments sake; the grave will give plenty of time for silence.
Notre Dame will never join a conference willingly....and they'll never be forced to join one either.
If they're told, "no more automatic BCS bid", they will join...they will beg to join a conference.
sure, but it will never happen....
Sure it can. Notre Dame doesn't have much in the way of friends among the other Presidents. The scenario still exists, that if the BCS is ousted, the 4 mega-conferences will decide how a National Championship is decided. If not a part of a conference by then, do you think they would go out of their way to include the arrogant irish? I don't think so.
This post was edited by OhioHawk07 15 months ago
I agree but to get to four mega-conferences, the ACC has to be dismantled. Like Noah's Ark, the conferences must grow by pairs.
But the Pac-12 isn't likely to expand, so even if the Big 12, B1G and SEC all go to 16 teams, that's only 60 teams. Currently those four conferences account for 50 teams. The ACC has 14 plus ND and it's about to go to 15 with Louisville's addition. Getting to 60 means 6 teams would be left on the outside looking in. So besides ND, which ACC teams might be left out? Or maybe the better question is which two ACC teams would be the 59th and 60th members to join the mega-conference "coalition," the very last pair to join the NCAA's Ark?
If it comes down to only two spots left, Notre Dame will have no choice but to want in and it will still be considered significantly more desirable than any of the others. But academically, Notre Dame cannot feel any affinity for the SEC outside of a handful of schools (Vandy, TAMU, Mizzou, Florida), and probably not to most of the Big 12's (K-State and WVU as their scholastic peers? Ha!). That's why it's in the B1G's best interest to let the SEC and Big 12 take whoever they want--which may be Notre Dame but the Irish will stubbornly and arrogantly resist any overtures--until it becomes apparent that if it doesn't join a conference, it will be cut out altogether and they come crawling to the B1G. The Irish's pride will be their own undoing.
Didn't you start out this thread with the possibility of the core of the ACC being dismantled? I mean last year it looked like the Big 12 was on shaky ground. So who knows when the time comes.
The PAC-12 has some programs to chose from. I like BYU, Boise St, and Nevada. To a lesser extent UNLV fits the bill too.
Notre Dame cannot concern itself with academics when it comes to a conference. This is about money plain and simple. Besides the SEC would never want a team where it could see snow come November. Can you imagine the whining about southern teams having to buy jackets, gloves and hats to go to South Bend. They would be mismatched from the whichever K-Mart and Piggly--Wiggly they could find.
"They would be mismatched from the whichever K-Mart and Piggly--Wiggly they could find. biggrin"
LOL. I love it. Keep up the spirit. It gave me a good chuckle on a knuckle bruising, cold winter morning.
From a strictly athletic perspective, adding Virginia does nothing for the B1G. All of this conference realignment is destroying what is great about college athletics and is going to drive a lot of people away from being so interested in the sport. Obviously, I'll still watch every Iowa game, but I have no interest in checking out the NW/Virginia or MSU/VIrginia game. 12 is enough in the B1G for me.
This post was edited by KCHawk25 15 months ago
I started the thread with a link to an article on SB Nation about the B1G going after Virginia. While I can see it happening, that doesn't mean I am advocating the ACC's destruction. If anything, there wasn't anything in that article that was new since there's been plenty of chatter about further expansion beyond 14 teams.
The Pac-12 isn't going to add Boise State, Nevada, BYU or UNLV. They don't see those teams as being anywhere near their equals and only BYU would add something in that it's a much smaller version of Notre Dame and it offers a regional rival for Utah and Colorado. Otherwise, none of them expand the Pac-12's brand or deepen its pockets. And don't forget that Larry Scott has repeatedly said that the Pac-12 is very content with its current size. In its case, less IS more.
My last post was in response to your remarks about Notre Dame and how it would have to be in a conference under the mega-conference format. If getting Notre Dame is the B1G's goal--and I've always seen ND as Delany's personal Moby Dick, the rare white whale everyone wants to bag--I think he would be smart to sit back and watch the SEC and Big 12 pick the ACC apart so that the B1G ends up being Notre Dame's best option unless they can insert themselves into the NC format as an independent, just as they have in the BCS coalition. And they probably will pull it off because they're too big to exclude. And if the ACC falls apart, the "Catholic 7" offers ND an option for basketball.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Delany, Slive and Bowlsby have had off the record conversations about how they'd like to divvy up the ACC between them, the way the Allies had agreements about how Berlin would be split up after Nazi Germany was defeated. The SEC doesn't want ND any more than ND wants the SEC; the Big 12 would like ND but the B1G is a much better fit. And while I agree all this is about money, if ND is forced to join a conference, don't be surprised if academics is an issue because it can't be ignored as part of the discussion when it comes to overall "best fit."
UVA = UNC. They are a package deal and the Tarheels are a cherry on top of the sundae for the BigTen.
Assuming this is true, I see this only as a play to get UNC. And even that would be difficult given the strong roots to their ACC rivals Duke and NC State along with their basketball traditions.
I saw Maryland-Rutgers as a stop gap, a defensive move to protect the B1G's eastern flank and keep PSU from leaving if it was ever tempted to do so but I also saw Maryland as a pawn move that would set the B1G up to swing south through Virginia and into North Carolina.
I'm curious if anyone sees UNC turning its back on its rivalry with Duke or if they're a package deal?
I agree with your take on this....and TBH, I think UNC should be far more concerned with leaving NCSt hanging out there for the SEC to grab. The SEC has targeted VT and an "NC" school for quite some time. UNC would be their preference obvioulsy, but NCSt or Duke will be almost as good as far as they're concerned.
For the B1G, they should just do one more giant expansion and take UVA, UNC, Duke and GT. If the day should ever come that the NCAA forces ND to join a conference (which I personally don't see happening) the B1G can always add them and BC as a final package deal to get to 20.
This. Be careful what you wish for. If it's all about branding and money, then will the day come when Iowa and NW get dumped to bring in Florida State and Georgia Tech?
I think the SEC would much prefer GT and FSU to UNC or UVA. Maybe VT.
20 teams, seriously? That means, even with a 9-game schedule, Iowa would only meat PSU, OSU, etc. in the conference championship. Unacceptable! Look what 12 teams has done to our Wisconsin rivalry.
It is time for the schools to rein in Mr. Delaney. It is NOT all about the benjamins!
You may want to do a little research on that..... very doubtful that either GT or FSU will be invited, or in the case of GT invited back, to the SEC
VT and UNC are the SEC's most coveted targets....(not including Texas or ND of course)
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